Radio & Ship's radio Licence & ATIS MMSI

[DBA Forum (B) - Alan Kerr]

I am finding this baffling.

Can anyone explain in simple terms, the best order in which to get:
Radio Licence - got that today.
Ship's Radio licence
Callsign
MMSI
ATIS.

The various .org websites are not very helpful.

I was told there was an option to apply for an expedited radio licence but that does not seem to be the case.

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Hello Alan,

You are on the right track!

Log in to the web- site and read this: http://www.barges.org/knowledgebase/regulations/regulations-radio

You can get SRL, Callsign, MMSI and ATIS number all on-line for free from OFCOM.

It is a pity that the course did not explain that!

[DBA Forum (B) - Alan Kerr]

Hi Andy,
Hope your euro tour is going well.
I was led to believe that nothing could be applied for till I had the
Radio licence and now time is getting short to get my radio fit coded before launch.
As I see it, MMSI can only be added once the ships licence is issued.
And the atis once i have my personal licence number - which can take 2 weeks on its own.
Which is all going to take longer than it needed to.
Or have I misunderstood.
Cheers,
Alan.

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Hello Alan,

My assumption is that you are licensing a UK registered ship? If so read on - if not - tell me the country of registration!

The Operators licence and Ship licence are totally separate - one is for the ship and equipment and the other for the user .

You need to register and apply on-line for a Ship Radio Licence including all the equipment you have fitted (or may be planning to fit - saves changing it again!) which should include fixed and handheld radios, radar, and AIS. This will give you a call-sign and an MMSI number. This should be almost immediate on-line. You can usually programme your MMSI number yourself.

You then need to apply for a notice of variation - again on-line for ATIS registration. The ATIS number will be the MMSI number preceded by 9 (non Rainwat code number) to make it a ten digit number. So once you have the MMSI you can get the ATIS number entered! This may require return to manufacturer but most suppliers should be able to do this for you.

Hope this helps!

[DBA Forum (B) - Janice Wallace]

Hi,
Done it all on line in ten minutes ! Fed the data into the new radio and bingo !

Derk

[DBA Forum (B) - Alan Kerr]

Thank you Andy, and Derk ;)
I was probably a bit tired last night but the web seemed to be against me and the instructions from my supplier were not very helpful. I thought my Ships licence application had been sent online but it was waiting for more info.
The nice man on the Ofcom helpline was very helpful.
All, fingers crossed, done now.
Are you saying that I can just add 9 in front of my new MMSI to get my ATIS number?

Derk,From my radio course, unless programmed in the MMSI number is deleted when power is removed.
thanks everyone, Alan, Over.


On 5 August 2014 08:36, DBA Forum (B) - Janice Wallace <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:



Hi,

     Done it all on line in ten minutes !  Fed the data into the new radio and bingo !



Derk

[DBA Forum (B) - Janice Wallace]

Mines is still in there. Just checked it !!

Derek

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Hello Alan,

Your MMSI is converted into an ATIS identity by putting a 9 in front of it. When you apply for the license variation OFCOM will advise the RAINWAT Registrar of your number and ships's radio equipment.

Best Wishes

Andy Soper
Chairman
DBA - The Barge Association

mv Neeltje

The Netherlands

+44 (0)7940598364

DBA - The Barge Association
"You don't need a barge to join - a dream of barging in Europe will do!"
See www.barges.org

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Alan Kerr
Thank you Andy, and Derk ;)
I was probably a bit tired last night but the web seemed to be against me and the instructions from my supplier were not very helpful. I thought my Ships licence application had been sent online but it was waiting for more info.
The nice man on the Ofcom helpline was very helpful.
All, fingers crossed, done now.
Are you saying that I can just add 9 in front of my new MMSI to get my ATIS number?
Derk,From my radio course, unless programmed in the MMSI number is deleted when power is removed.
thanks everyone, Alan, Over.
Hi,
Done it all on line in ten minutes ! Fed the data into the new radio and bingo !
Derk
--
Kerr

[DBA Forum (B) - Alan Kerr]

For the benefit of anyone else as simple as me:

Separately and in any order:

Register your boat online for £25 and await an SSR number.

Go on the RYA course and get your VHF operators licence.
You get a piece of paper showing you have passed and this qualifies you
to use your radio. A paper licence with your photo will follow in the post.

Go online and apply for your Ships radio licence, stating all transmitting equipment
and whether your radio is DSC equipped.
Immediately you will get a Callsign & MMSI number.
You will receive an email shortly with your Ships radio licence attached.
Then, email an request for a Variation to your Ships Radio Licence requesting ATIS registration.
Shortly after an email will arrive with your Notice of Variation attached and yes,
your ATIS number is just your MMSI number prefixed with a 9.

simples.

Thank you to everyone who contributed.

[DBA Forum (B) - Pete Milne (Admin)]

This is all explained in the DBA Knowledgebase - but separately under regs for the boat and regs for the skipper. Alan's summary is so clear, I have added it to the Knowledgebase Communications/VHF section - with links to the appropriate web sites.

Thanks Alan.

Pete
Website Admin

[DBA Forum (B) - Tim Hackett]

The reference to SSR is misleading surely Pete? What if the ship is over 24m or already on another register?

Tim

[DBA Forum (B) - Alan Kerr]

As I said, my guide is for simpletons, who are unlikely to already have registered a boat, and maybe less likely to be registering a boat over 24m, but surely simple to add that proviso. :)

[DBA Forum (B) - Charles Fitzhardinge]

The procedure described above is ONLY for UK/SSR registered boats.
As discussed previously in this Forum the procedure and requirements vary according to the EU country in which your ship is registered.
For a Netherlands registered ship, for example, you must have your (personal) Radio Operating Licence BEFORE you can even apply for your Ships' Radio Licence.
For non EU citizens (eg Australians) your home licence (even if International and Professional!) will not suffice, forcing you to get an EU Radio Operators' licence (UK, Dutch etc).
Charles Fitzhardinge
Anna Maria
(holder of Australian issued MROCP and now, perforce, RYA micky-mouse licence SRC)

[DBA Forum (B) - Alan Kerr]

Indeed, few things in life are as simple as they might be.
Having all that info in one place might be a good idea.
It is not just non-EU cutizens who have to jump thru licencing hoops,
having used VHF & HF for 40 yrs I still had to pass the RYA exam,
but is it necessary to be so insulting of it...
- "RYA micky-mouse licence "
I dont think it claims to be much more than a basic competency certificate.

[DBA Forum (B) - Pete Milne (Admin)]

[quote="Charles Fitzhardinge" post=56765]
The procedure described above is ONLY for UK/SSR registered boats.
[/quote]
... as is clear from Alan's notes. It is relevant to a large number of DBA Members, including, I think, the many non-UK citizens with boats on the SSR. Those with boats too big for the SSR (24m+) will find themselves referred to the Part 1 register by the links I have added to the KB article. However, I'll add a note to clarify that..

The process for obtaining radio licences in the Netherlands is also documented in the Knowledgebase. If anyone can document the equivalent for boats registered in other countries, I will add those. The Knowledgebase relies on members summarising a topic, as Alan has done; once written, it can be added to or refined.

Pete

[DBA Forum (B) - Charles Fitzhardinge]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[DBA Forum (B) - Charles Briggs]

Now in France and having done all this recently and easily and successfully as per the DBA guidelines I have come across one unexpected snag with my Radio Ocean Pocket 2400 VHF which I had to send back to the suppliers to be ATIS enabled. This enablement meant the disablement of my DSC function and I can't switch between the two. So I am now ATIS compliant but find that on my device although I can receive transmissions from most channels I can only transmit on ATIS channels. This is why I never got an answer from a lock keeper or a port when I arrived here as the ATIS Channels are 6,8,10,11,12,13,14,71 and 72.
Never straight forward!
I simply don't hold with the advice to keep one's VHF on all the time, unless one has it fitted in a wheelhouse where one can have it connected to a power source and can hear it or when it is obligatory, as in Paris. On the Nivernais for instance it would appear to be of very little benefit to me so I think maybe some mention of what systems are most useful for what type of boat and what type of cruising might be helpful. After taking my Radio Operators Course I was still in the dark about how to choose an appropriate radio for my needs and it took me a year to work out that the boat had to have a licence too!

[DBA Forum (B) - Pete. Milne]

There are a few more ATIS channels than that, as both my ATIS radios confirm. 18, 20 & 22 are pretty common for lock working and 77 for inter-ship chat. I think Charles has been sold a pup.

It isn't 'advice' to keep one's VHF on all the time. Them's the rules! It is understandable not to on the likes of the Nivernais, Roubaix or Somme, where there is no operational need for VHF (for locks/bridges) but it would sometimes be useful if people kept Ch 10 (ship-ship) open.

Pete

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Charles,
Agree with Pete - something is wrong if it doesn't have the other channels.

One of these - DSC and ATIS user switchable is not a lot more than a handheld - £35 small change compared to cost of barge!

www.marinesuperstore.com/item/99241667/standard-horizon-gx1200e-eclipse-vhf-fixed

And, as has been said often before, too many vessels trog around without a radio switched on.

Colin Stone
KEI

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Hello Colin and Charles,
But the 1200E spec doesn't even mention ATIS capability.
The ICOM M421 and handheld M35 both have full switchable ATIS capability.  We have both of these (2 ATIS over 20M) - but they are a little more expensive than the OceanPocket which appears to have ATIS only if programmed at the factory. 


I cannot understand why Charles's radio has only certain channels - all channels are used by both DSC radios and ATIS inland.  It is the power setting and in some cases the duplex channel that varies.  See your Operator certificate notes (or RYA pub VHF Radio) and the RAINWAT regs for more detail.  The RYA VHF radio book also  covers the Ship Radio Licence (p6) and the the DSC channels details (Annex C) and it is disappointing that RYA courses are not mentioning either ATIS or the Ship Radio Licence.


At least if you are listening on CH10 the commercial behind you can get your attention and ask to pass - much more civilised than putting his bow on your counter and shouting!  A loud transmission will also alert you to the presence of others thus preparing you for collision avoidance!

Best Wishes

Andy SoperChairmanDBA - The Barge Association

mv NeeltjeZaandamThe Netherlands


[phone]



'You don't need a barge to join -  a dream of barging in Europe will do'
See www.barges.org


On 11 August 2014 19:11, DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:




Charles,

Agree with Pete - something is wrong if it doesn't have the other channels.



One of these - DSC and ATIS user switchable is not a lot more than a handheld - £35 small change compared to cost of barge!



www.marinesuperstore.com/item/99241667/standard-horizon-gx1200e-eclipse-vhf-fixed



And, as has been said often before, too many vessels trog around without a radio switched on.



Colin Stone

KEI

[DBA Forum (B) - Charles Briggs]

Thanks Andy - but a quick correction in defence of RYA Course (Bisham Abbey) which certainly left me understanding that I would need ATIS if going to France and so the one thing I had in mind was to buy a VHF which could be programmed to ATIS - hence my choice of the Radio Ocean.
As far as I am aware there is no requirement in the UK for my boat (18m) to have VHF or to have one turned on when cruising. The tidal Thames requires VHF to be used below Teddington. I am not aware that there is any such requirement in France (as has been already argued on the forum on another thread) except for the Seine in Paris where one must keep a listening brief on Channel 10.
In the 5 years since I have had the VHF I have used it for 3 hours on the Thames and for 2 hours in Paris. I used it on the Trent for an hour or so too. When I have received transmissions I have not been able to understand who is sending them, where they are or what they are saying - and that goes for both English and French! So to spend £100s of £s (I did look into it!) on something I have found to be of extremely limited value does stick in the throat. I have never felt threatened by enormous commercial barges or given them cause to tell me to get out of the way. No boat has ever used a horn signal to alert me of their intentions - all those hours I spent studying for CEVNI!
I think it is a very confusing subject for all newish boaters who don't have 20m + barges. Not only are the regulations different but best practice I suspect is also different in some respects for smaller boats which are mainly cruising on leisure waterways.

[DBA Forum (B) - Pete. Milne]

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[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Andy,

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper
But the 1200E spec doesn't even mention ATIS capability.

The site I briefly looked at had the feature listed. Anyway, the point is that there are user switchable fixed radios at around that price.

Sods law a handheld battery will be flat when needed!

And laws or not, it is not very seaman like going about on the water without a decent radio switched on. Eg trying to call a boat ahead, even on a small canal, on Ch 10 to share a lock.

Colin Stone
KEI

Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Charles Fitzhardinge]

Even though not much over 20m, I am ever grateful for current technology.
I carry, and keep active, both VHF and AIS, the latter always displaying on Google Earth.
I can see the big ships, and they can see me.
The past couple of days I have travelled up the Rupel then the Dijle, then down same and up the Beneden Nete. These tidal Belgian rivers can be fast flowing around mid tide, and in particular, both the Dijle and Nete are high banked, narrow and serpentine.
On one occasion on each of these rivers I received a VHF call addressed to Anna Maria asking me to wait where I was in a straight short stretch, and sure enough, after a few minutes the bow of the large commercial I had been watching approach on AIS but of which I would otherwise have been oblivious, swung round the curve taking up almost all of the narrow channel.
Thankyou, technology.
Charles Fitzhardinge
Anna Maria