vat on moorings for qualifying ships

[DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner]

Having a bit of time on my hands I read through HMRCs Notice 744c regarding VAT - fully.

[url=http://http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_PublicNoticesAndInfoSheets&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_CL_000169]HMRC Notice 744c[/url]

I've resurrected this historic thread as some of the issues are pertinent although the current Notice is dated July 2011 so some of the wording has changed.

My question is - has anyone ever used their declaration to pay Harbour Dues at 0%?

We've enjoyed the benefit of Colin & Ali Stone's work through the Courts recently, on a £6k+ bill for [u]repair [/u]work but wondered if we could have saved on harbour dues at Ramsgate, Dover & Eastbourne. Does the River Hamble count?
" ''Port' means any port appointed for customs purposes and this includes [i]all seaports, coastline and territorial waters [/i](normally 12 nautical miles from the coast) around the UK. The definition does not extend beyond the water of the port onto land adjacent to a port, for example the quay or dockside area nor does it generally extend into non-tidal waters; the main exception being the Manchester Ship canal which is a port"

I'm a wee bit miffed that I hadn't read the whole thing before as we recently bought new life vests and could have paid 0% on those, plus 'nuts, bolts, hoses & oil seals' plus a new portable VHF radio (as the old one is ate bottom of the dock in Shoreham)!!!!!

[DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner]

My attempt at putting in the link to HMRC 744c didn't work!

[DBA Forum (B) - John Booker]

Yes,

Myself and several others, after many years of refusal finally got
refunds on VAT paid on mooring charges at St. Katharines Docks in
2012-13. Since moving to the Port of Ipswich I have not paid VAT on
mooring charges. It has to be bourne in mind that there is a list of
HMRC recognised ports where the zero-rating will apply. So that does
rule out small coastal marinas etc.

John Booker

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner
Having a bit of time on my hands I read through HMRCs Notice 744c regarding VAT - fully.
[url=http://http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_PublicNoticesAndInfoSheets&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_CL_000169]HMRC Notice 744c[/url]
I've resurrected this historic thread as some of the issues are pertinent although the current Notice is dated July 2011 so some of the wording has changed.
My question is - has anyone ever used their declaration to pay Harbour Dues at 0%?
We've enjoyed the benefit of Colin & Ali Stone's work through the Courts recently, on a £6k+ bill for [u]repair [/u]work but wondered if we could have saved on harbour dues at Ramsgate, Dover & Eastbourne. Does the River Hamble count?
" ''Port' means any port appointed for customs purposes and this includes [i]all seaports, coastline and territorial waters [/i](normally 12 nautical miles from the coast) around the UK. The definition does not extend beyond the water of the port onto land adjacent to a port, for example the quay or dockside area nor does it generally extend into non-tidal waters; the main exception being the Manchester Ship canal which is a port"
I'm a wee bit miffed that I hadn't read the whole thing before as we recently bought new life vests and could have paid 0% on those, plus 'nuts, bolts, hoses & oil seals' plus a new portable VHF radio (as the old one is ate bottom of the dock in Shoreham)!!!!!

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner
I'm a wee bit miffed that I hadn't read the whole thing before as we recently bought new life vests and could have paid 0% on those, plus 'nuts, bolts, hoses & oil seals' plus a new portable VHF radio (as the old one is ate bottom of the dock in Shoreham)!!!!!

Yes - I ask and get 0% rating on anything that is supplied and made to measure for KEI - eg wheelhouse leather bench seating and galley worktops.

Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner]

Thanks for that John. Do you know where the list of HMRC -approved Ports is listed?

Colin - that's excellent to hear. Do you just produce a declaration form and they're all OK about it?

The shipyard which did our work just calculated the invoice without asking us or even mentioning a declaration.

Having had a PM from someone, I must now admit that I had not done our tonnage calculation correctly- I'd omitted the final 'times 0.16' which means we are NOT a qualifying ship. Blast!

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

There is no list (AFAIK) of UK ports - only airports.
You have to provide an indemnity form agreeing to pay back VAT if you have claimed incorrectly.
You do not appear to be a qualifying ship.
It could be embarrassing if a DBA Director made a false claim.




Best Wishes

Andy SoperChairmanDBA - The Barge Association

mv Neeltje
The Netherlands


[phone]

'You don't need a barge to join -  a dream of barging in Europe will do'
See www.barges.org


On 6 September 2014 21:24, DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Thanks for that John. Do you know where the list of HMRC -approved Ports is listed?



Colin - that's excellent to hear. Do you just produce a declaration form and they're all OK about it?



The shipyard which did our work just calculated the invoice without asking us or even mentioning a declaration.



Having had a PM from someone, I must now admit that I had not done our tonnage calculation correctly- I'd omitted the final 'times 0.16' which means we are NOT a qualifying ship. Blast!

[DBA Forum (B) - Pete. Milne]

[quote="Di Warner" post=57549]
Do you know where the list of HMRC -approved Ports is listed?

Colin - that's excellent to hear. Do you just produce a declaration form and they're all OK about it?
[/quote]

There's no list of appoved ports. As Di quoted from the Notice...

" ''Port' means any port appointed for customs purposes and this includes all seaports, coastline and territorial waters (normally 12 nautical miles from the coast) around the UK. The definition does not extend beyond the water of the port onto land adjacent to a port, for example the quay or dockside area nor does it generally extend into non-tidal waters; the main exception being the Manchester Ship canal which is a port"

Regarding equipment, owners of qualifying ships do only need to produce a declaration form ( in the DBA Library at http://www.barges.org/library?task=document.download&id=475 ), for the supplier to show their VAT inspector . Suppliers do not [i]have[/i] to accept the form; most I've experienced do but some don't if they're not sure of the rules.

Pete

[DBA Forum (B) - John Booker]

Di,
The list is as follows:

ABERDEEN Althorpe Amble Annan Appledore Arbroath ARDROSSAN AVONMOUTH AYR Baltic Wharf, Rochford Barcaldine BARROW-IN-FURNESS Barrow-on-Humber Barry DocK Barton-on-Humber Beckingham BELFAST Berwick Bideford Birkenhead BLYTH BOSTON
Bowling Braefoot Bay Bridgwater Bridlington Bridport
Brightlingsea Briton Ferry Brixham Buckie Burghead Burnham-on-Crouch Burntisland Burton Stather Caernarfon Campbeltown CARDIFF Castletown CHANNEL FIXED LINK Charlestown Chepstow COLCHESTER COLERAINE Continental Shelf (UK Part) Corpach, incl. Annat Pier COWES Dartmouth
DOUGLAS DOVER DUNDEE ELLESMERE PORT EXETER Exmouth
FALMOUTH Faslane Faversham FELIXSTOWE Fingringhoe Finnart FISHGUARD FLEETWOOD Flixborough Wharf FOLKESTONE FOWEY FRASERBURGH Freezones Furnace Gainsborough Garlieston Garston Girvan GLASGOW Glasson Dock Gloucester GOOLE GRANGEMOUTH
GREAT YARMOUTH GREENOCK GRIMSBY Grove Wharves Guness Wharf
HARTLEPOOL HARWICH HEYSHAM Holehaven HOLYHEAD HOUND POINT TERMINAL Howdendyke HULL Hunterston IMMINGHAM Inland Clearance INVERGORDON Inverkeithing INVERNESS IPSWICH IRVINE Islay Keadby KINGS LYNN KIRKCALDY KIRKWALL Lancaster Larne
Leigh-on-Sea LEITH LERWICK Littlehampton LIVERPOOL
LLANDDULAS Llanelli Lochaline LONDON LONDON GATEWAY LONDONDERRY Lossiemouth Low Value Trade LOWESTOFT Lymington Macduff Maldon MANCHESTER MEDWAY Methil MIDDLESBROUGH MILFORD Millom Mistley MONTROSE MOSTYN Neap House Neath Abbey
New Holland Newcastle NEWHAVEN Newlyn NEWPORT, Gwent
North Shields NORTHWICH NORWICH Oban Padstow Palnackie PAR Parkeston Quay Partington Peel Pembroke (Oils) SO Pembroke EPU Pembroke Ferry Penryn PENZANCE Perth PETERHEAD PLYMOUTH Point BID POOLE Port Penrhyn PORT TALBOT Portishead
Portland Portrush PORTSMOUTH Postal Packages Queenborough
Ramsey RAMSGATE Rhyl Ridham Dock Rochester Rochford ROSYTH Rowhedge Royal Portbury Dock RUNCORN Rye Scalloway SCARBOROUGH Scrabster Scunthorpe Seaham Selby SHARPNESS Sheerness SHOREHAM Shotton SILLOTH South Shields SOUTHAM
PTON Southend (Corporation Jetty) St Helier St Peter Port STORNOWAY
Stranraer Stromness SUNDERLAND SWANSEA Tayport Teesport TEIGNMOUTH THAMES EUROPORT THAMESPORT Tilbury Topsham Torquay TRENT Truro TYNE Ullapool
WARRENPOINT Warrington WATCHET Wells WEYMOUTH WHITBY WHITEHAVEN WHITSTABLE WISBECH Wivenhoe WORKINGTON
On 06/09/2014 20:24, DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner wrote:

Thanks for that John. Do you know where the list of HMRC -approved Ports is listed?

Colin - that's excellent to hear. Do you just produce a declaration form and they're all OK about it?

The shipyard which did our work just calculated the invoice without asking us or even mentioning a declaration.

Having had a PM from someone, I must now admit that I had not done our tonnage calculation correctly- I'd omitted the final 'times 0.16' which means we are NOT a qualifying ship. Blast!

[DBA Forum (B) - Derek Kendall]

Sorry to disagree with Andy and Pete and also to add clarity to Johns reply there are several lists of Ports, 13 in all.

The definitions of Ports for Customs purposes are contained in 13 UK Statutory Instruments which have only recently become available online. When we had our discussions with HMRC in 2009 about qualifying ships and Vat/moorings here in London the relevant UK SI only existed in paper form tracked down to, I would think, a rarely opened filing cabinet in Southend-on Sea!

So the lists can be found at www.legislation.gov.uk/en/all?title=appointment%20of%20ports

Effectively the legislation covers the entirety of the coastline and attached docks.
To quote- "as far as the tide flows,all rivers, canals, bays, creeks, streams, channels, waters and watercourses."

Best
Derek

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Thanks Derek - excellent posting!Best Wishes

Andy SoperChairmanDBA - The Barge Association

mv Neeltje
The Netherlands


[phone]

'You don't need a barge to join -  a dream of barging in Europe will do'
See www.barges.org


On 7 September 2014 15:18, DBA Forum (B) - Derek Kendall <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Sorry to disagree with Andy and Pete and also to add clarity to Johns reply there are several lists of Ports, 13 in all.



The definitions of Ports for Customs purposes are contained in 13 UK Statutory Instruments which have only recently become available online. When we had our discussions with HMRC in 2009 about qualifying ships and Vat/moorings here in London the relevant UK SI only existed in paper form tracked down to, I would think, a rarely opened filing cabinet in Southend-on Sea!



So the lists can be found at www.legislation.gov.uk/en/all?title=appointment%20of%20ports



Effectively the legislation covers the entirety of the coastline and attached docks.

To quote- 'as far as the tide flows,all rivers, canals, bays, creeks, streams, channels, waters and watercourses.'



Best

Derek

[DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner]

Thanks everyone....it's all becoming a little more clear.

I now need to

dispose of completed declaration forms which I'd printed
tell the owner of the ' ship ' not to sign any more declaration forms presented to him

[DBA Forum (B) - Barrie and Carole Grant]

Is there VAT charged on haul-out fees and dry dock fees?Doing our research on this
Thanks in advance


Barrie and Carole GrantM/V SilkPurse


On 8 September 2014 09:03, DBA Forum (B) - Di Warner <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Thanks everyone....it's all becoming a little more clear.



I now need to

dispose of completed declaration forms which I'd printed
tell the owner of the ' ship ' not to sign any more declaration forms presented to him

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Hello Barrie and Carole,

In UK haul-out and dry-docking charges can be zero-rated for qualifying ships

See more detail here- http://www.barges.org/knowledgebase/regulations/regulations-boats/uk-vat-on-barges