I wish I had/hadn't done/installed that...

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Having been planning the technical aspects of a soon to be launched motor aak renovation I would be really interested to hear everyone's best and worst things on their barges or miscalculations which proved a massive pain to put right. I am really interested in things like plumbing (central macerator or toilet macerator etc), electrical system and flooring design/materials or quirky ideas which have been amazing.

I wish I had double glazed the windows in our boat. Single glazing is dreadful and the condensation in winter is shocking :(

Best bit of kit was our rear canopy fitted last winter which gives us semi dry room for wet kit, storing firewood and generally keeps the outside crap outside for once!

Amusing anecdotes are especially welcome....

Thanks in advance

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Chris Williamson]

Wish I'd never installed an erbespacher room heater. Expensive, unreliable, noisy and uses an unreasonable amount of electricity.






Chris
D. B. Orca




-------- Original message --------
Forum (B) - Christopher Morton'
Date:2014/09/23 16:12 (GMT+00:00)
subscribers
wish I had/hadn't done/installed that...






Having been planning the technical aspects of a soon to be launched motor aak renovation I would be really interested to hear everyone's best and worst things on their barges or miscalculations which proved a massive pain to put right. I am really interested in things like plumbing (central macerator or toilet macerator etc), electrical system and flooring design/materials or quirky ideas which have been amazing.



I wish I had double glazed the windows in our boat. Single glazing is dreadful and the condensation in winter is shocking :(



Best bit of kit was our rear canopy fitted last winter which gives us semi dry room for wet kit, storing firewood and generally keeps the outside crap outside for once!



Amusing anecdotes are especially welcome....



Thanks in advance



Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Michel de Lange]

I'm still very happy with the two spud poles we installed that - especially in Belgium and France - give us the opportunity to moor anywhere. 
Cheers,Michel

On Tuesday, 23 September 2014, DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Having been planning the technical aspects of a soon to be launched motor aak renovation I would be really interested to hear everyone's best and worst things on their barges or miscalculations which proved a massive pain to put right. I am really interested in things like plumbing (central macerator or toilet macerator etc), electrical system and flooring design/materials or quirky ideas which have been amazing.



I wish I had double glazed the windows in our boat. Single glazing is dreadful and the condensation in winter is shocking :(



Best bit of kit was our rear canopy fitted last winter which gives us semi dry room for wet kit, storing firewood and generally keeps the outside crap outside for once!



Amusing anecdotes are especially welcome....



Thanks in advance



Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Peter Cawson]

I bought my boat when only 18 months old but it was fitted throughout in lovely white capetting - including the steps from the deck to to the saloon. That wasn't my mistake, but it's certainly a daft thing to do!

I'd agree that hot air heaters are most unsatisfactory (another original owner mistake in my boat) and not fitting solar is another, though I've added 3 large 240 watt panels this year.

Spud poles are great when waiting for locks or mooring where the bank is too shallow. My last 20 m boat had a single centre pin anchor - in my view the best location for a single pin as the boat keeps straight longer whatever the water flow and only needs a short bow thrust to straighten up if the rudder won't do the job. Present boat has none, but it's only 15 m.

What I really really miss is the car deck I had on my last boat - ever boat should have one! My nomadic travelling with 3 to 5 trips back to UK is most tiresome when it comes to remembering where I've abandoned my car, travelling by bike, train, taxt, etc to collect it (hoping it still has 4 wheels) and driving back to the boat to load up for the long journey home. Previously my car was always safe on my deck and where I wanted it in case a trip to the supermarket was required, or to collect friends for the station, or to visit those lovely towns at the top of the hill - rivers always seem to be at the botton for some reason beyond me!

Peter

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Kip,

Wish I had:
Hull rubbing strake - 50mm half round just above waterline.
2 tabs welded on to rudder stock tube to support rudder indicator sensors.
Forepeak access - sliding top and doors instead of hatch.

Wish I hadn't:
Can't think of anything.

Otherwise, all works exactly as envisaged, designed, planned and installed.

Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Interesting that spud poles seem to be a big hit. I had not even considered them. Are they fitted fore and aft or on one/both sides and do you hammer them in manually or just push them into the river bed?

Rubbing strake just above the water line sounds like an interesting idea. I assume this is to prevent any ice or debris from rubbing away the antifouling so to stop the rust getting hold quickly?

I have an Eberspacher but it is a Hydronic hot water version and it seems pretty good at providing hot water and heating first thing in the morning before the fire goes on. I guess the hot air heaters aren't much cop.

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Does anyone regret installing hardwood skylights? I know Chris Grant's barge Esme has some small skylights which he recommends which are thermally broken metal frame jobs which can be made any size (within reason) but have heard all kinds of shockers with teak ones splitting in cold weather and then leaking like a sieve.

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Michel de Lange]

Hi,

The spud poles are fairly heavy, some 400k, and I just lower them. There's 2, foredeck and aft deck, operated independently of course by winches. If you want more info you can also go to my website (www.t-majeur.nl) or contact me directly at micheldelange-Re5JQEeQqe9fmgfxC/sS/***@public.gmane.org 
CheersMichel 

On Wednesday, 24 September 2014, DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Interesting that spud poles seem to be a big hit. I had not even considered them. Are they fitted fore and aft or on one/both sides and do you hammer them in manually or just push them into the river bed?



Rubbing strake just above the water line sounds like an interesting idea. I assume this is to prevent any ice or debris from rubbing away the antifouling so to stop the rust getting hold quickly?



I have an Eberspacher but it is a Hydronic hot water version and it seems pretty good at providing hot water and heating first thing in the morning before the fire goes on. I guess the hot air heaters aren't much cop.



Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Lorna Baker]

We have iroko hatches, yacht-type pigeon boxes.
They have been known to leak a bit, mainly from the hinge section - we have grooves for run-off, between the opening window and the body of the hatch, which probably should be a bit deeper.
Our neighbour, Mooi Aak, has a similar hatch which he says has never leaked (I think he said it was made by Balliol?). So, it must all be in the design.
We have had covers made for the winter, that we put on whenever a storm is forecast. They are loose enough to allow us to open the windows at the same time.
I think the thing about them that we should have done differently, is that they are fixed to the roof. We should have had upstands fixed on the roof, and then the bodies of the hatches slotted over the upstands. Then we would have been able to take them off for sanding and oiling, all of which is a bit awkward in situ.
Lorna

-----Original Message-----
Forum (B) - Christopher Morton [mailto:dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: 24 September 2014 11:25
subscribers
wish I had/hadn't done/installed that...


Does anyone regret installing hardwood skylights? I know Chris Grant's barge Esme has some small skylights which he recommends which are thermally broken metal frame jobs which can be made any size (within reason) but have heard all kinds of shockers with teak ones splitting in cold weather and then leaking like a sieve.

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton
Rubbing strake just above the water line sounds like an interesting idea.

To take the wear when in narrow locks with low sides above the full waterline.
Difficult to adequately fender.

Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Thanks Lorna. I had thought about putting a raised lip at 90 degrees to the metal roofline and somehow using this to slot the skylight over (I am guessing in a channel cut in the wood) and then fix though somehow. It seems to be a bit hit and miss with whether they leak or not but suspect there must be an optimum design out there to minimise the chances of leakage :)

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Chris Williamson]

Rubbing strake just above the water line sounds like an interesting idea.>To take the wear when in narrow locks with low sides above the full waterline. >Difficult to adequately fender.

difficult to know where to put it accurately before the boat finds its level, when fitted out, I'd have thought.
ChrisOrca

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

difficult to know where to put it accurately before the boat finds its level, when fitted out.

Not really if properly designed. Means sitting down and working out all the weights. I did it hull frame by hull frame in a spreadsheet and came out pretty much spot on.

Any decent designer/builder should be able to provide TPI - tons per inch immersion.

Add on say 5cm for draft increase as boat fills up with junk.

Tempted to weld rubbing strake on at next docking, but there is spray foam on the inside where it would go.

Colin Stone
KEI

Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Daniel Boekel]

Beware that those rubbing strakes can make very annoying noises when small waves run past them.
Maybe 50mm halfround is to small to make much noise, but I would tryout by hanging a piece on a rope and test it.

difficult to know where to put it accurately before the boat finds its level, when fitted out.

Not really if properly designed.  Means sitting down and working out all the weights. I did it hull frame by hull frame in a spreadsheet and came out pretty much spot on.



Any decent designer/builder should be able to provide TPI - tons per inch immersion.



Add on say 5cm for draft increase as boat fills up with junk.



Tempted to weld rubbing strake on at next docking, but there is spray foam on the inside where it would go.



Colin Stone

KEI



Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Charles Mclaren]

i was advised strenuously against because of corrosion problems underneath. c

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Chris Williamson

Rubbing strake just above the water line sounds like an interesting idea.>To take the wear when in narrow locks with low sides above the full waterline. >Difficult to adequately fender.

difficult to know where to put it accurately before the boat finds its level, when fitted out, I'd have thought.
ChrisOrca

[DBA Forum (B) - Frank Kordbarlag]

AIS was a horrible idea, everybody knows exactly where you are, including those you do not want to know....
Frank

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Charles Mclaren
i was advised strenuously against because of corrosion problems underneath.

??

A solid bar with continuously welded seams should not be an issue?

Tack welding, done all too often, yes would be a corrosion issue.

Colin Stone
KEI

Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Charles Mclaren]

I had assumed you were referring to a D section rubber profile. A solid half round
Should be no problem at all. C

Sent from my iPad

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Charles Mclaren
i was advised strenuously against because of corrosion problems underneath.

??
A solid bar with continuously welded seams should not be an issue?
Tack welding, done all too often, yes would be a corrosion issue.
Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Edward &amp; Pam Burrell]

The hatch on Mooi Aak was made by me. I have made them for a number of
barges either in Sapele or Iroko. They all have a 50mm steel upstand
over which they can slot and be easily removed. There is a simple
design element to the central hinge joint which has a very ample drain
groove and also a simple bar of either brass or wood persuading water to
drop cleanly into the groove. Make sure it isn't waterline horizontal.
Overall size should be dictated by the need to use this hatch for access
to the interior. Do not use varnish - oil is the best and easiest to
maintain. They were all double glazed.
I do not make them anymore but can supply drawings if requested.

Colin didn't mention his wheelhouse doors. I recall him commenting on
this when he moored alongside me some years ago. Perhaps he has changed
them from one large to a pair of smaller doors. These fold away in less
space and don't obstruct desk area which is often a premium beside a
wheelhouse (illustration on p26 A Guide to Motor Barge Handling)

On my barge I regret the balance of space allocated to galley area,
saloon, master cabin and forward cabin. It would have benefitted from
another 50mm in the galley, 50mm less in the master cabin and 100mm more
in the fo'cstle. The saloon could have absorbed the 100mm without
affecting the usefulness or shape of the saloon. It is amazing what
difference an extra inch can make, I am told ! Generally my rule was to
make any space as compact as possible to achieve it's purpose unless you
have a massive barge, of course.

Edward.

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Lorna Baker
We have iroko hatches, yacht-type pigeon boxes.
They have been known to leak a bit, mainly from the hinge section - we have grooves for run-off, between the opening window and the body of the hatch, which probably should be a bit deeper.
Our neighbour, Mooi Aak, has a similar hatch which he says has never leaked (I think he said it was made by Balliol?). So, it must all be in the design.
We have had covers made for the winter, that we put on whenever a storm is forecast. They are loose enough to allow us to open the windows at the same time.
I think the thing about them that we should have done differently, is that they are fixed to the roof. We should have had upstands fixed on the roof, and then the bodies of the hatches slotted over the upstands. Then we would have been able to take them off for sanding and oiling, all of which is a bit awkward in situ.
Lorna
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 24 September 2014 11:25
subscribers
wish I had/hadn't done/installed that...
Does anyone regret installing hardwood skylights? I know Chris Grant's barge Esme has some small skylights which he recommends which are thermally broken metal frame jobs which can be made any size (within reason) but have heard all kinds of shockers with teak ones splitting in cold weather and then leaking like a sieve.
Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Debra Colley-Allerton]

We installed a skylight with integrated fly wire and solar deflector over the bed in master suite. It sits flush with the outside roof. Absolutely magic over summer for venting the room and star gazing. Water proof during summer storms. Remains to be seen what happens over winter.

Installed IKEA decking tiles on outside deck surface - cool underfoot and look great. Easy to lift and store over winter.
Deb and peter
MV Fairhaven

[DBA Forum (B) - Lorna Baker]

Oops, sorry for my poor memory Edward.
It is a lovely hatch, which I admire every time our inadequate drain groove gets blocked with spiders!
Lorna

-----Original Message-----
Forum (B) - Edward & Pam Burrell [mailto:dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: 24 September 2014 18:11
subscribers
wish I had/hadn't done/installed that...


The hatch on Mooi Aak was made by me. I have made them for a number of barges either in Sapele or Iroko. They all have a 50mm steel upstand over which they can slot and be easily removed. There is a simple design element to the central hinge joint which has a very ample drain groove and also a simple bar of either brass or wood persuading water to drop cleanly into the groove. Make sure it isn't waterline horizontal.
Overall size should be dictated by the need to use this hatch for access to the interior. Do not use varnish - oil is the best and easiest to maintain. They were all double glazed.
I do not make them anymore but can supply drawings if requested.

Colin didn't mention his wheelhouse doors. I recall him commenting on this when he moored alongside me some years ago. Perhaps he has changed them from one large to a pair of smaller doors. These fold away in less space and don't obstruct desk area which is often a premium beside a wheelhouse (illustration on p26 A Guide to Motor Barge Handling)

On my barge I regret the balance of space allocated to galley area, saloon, master cabin and forward cabin. It would have benefitted from another 50mm in the galley, 50mm less in the master cabin and 100mm more in the fo'cstle. The saloon could have absorbed the 100mm without affecting the usefulness or shape of the saloon. It is amazing what difference an extra inch can make, I am told ! Generally my rule was to make any space as compact as possible to achieve it's purpose unless you have a massive barge, of course.

Edward.

[DBA Forum (B) - Chris and Sheila Ries]

Thank you to my hatch fan club! It is a really attractive piece of
craftmanship. When putting in a hatch, ask yourself whether it is the only
way of getting large object down below, ie. washing machine, settee, etc, or
if fitting out, large fuel, black or water tanks, and size the deck opening
accordingly.

Our hatch has double threaded opening stays, which reduces the amount of
stay protruding below the hatch. These also provide secure locking, as they
can only be disconnected by pulling out the spring loaded pins from inside
the barge. Incidentally consider putting in round brass bars to protect the
glass from damage from on deck.

Chris Ries
Mooi Aak
chrisandsheila.ries-***@public.gmane.org
01634 362788
DBA member and own a DAF engine? Contact me for manuals and information.
Need an International Certificate of Competence (ICC/CEVNI) Power or Sail?
Contact me for a foc exam.
----- Original Message -----
Forum (B) - Lorna Baker"
subscribers"
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:12 PM
wish I had/hadn't done/installed that...

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Lorna Baker
Oops, sorry for my poor memory Edward.
It is a lovely hatch, which I admire every time our inadequate drain
groove gets blocked with spiders!
Lorna
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 24 September 2014 18:11
subscribers
wish I had/hadn't done/installed that...
The hatch on Mooi Aak was made by me. I have made them for a number of
barges either in Sapele or Iroko. They all have a 50mm steel upstand over
which they can slot and be easily removed. There is a simple design
element to the central hinge joint which has a very ample drain groove and
also a simple bar of either brass or wood persuading water to drop cleanly
into the groove. Make sure it isn't waterline horizontal.
Overall size should be dictated by the need to use this hatch for access
to the interior. Do not use varnish - oil is the best and easiest to
maintain. They were all double glazed.
I do not make them anymore but can supply drawings if requested.
Colin didn't mention his wheelhouse doors. I recall him commenting on
this when he moored alongside me some years ago. Perhaps he has changed
them from one large to a pair of smaller doors. These fold away in less
space and don't obstruct desk area which is often a premium beside a
wheelhouse (illustration on p26 A Guide to Motor Barge Handling)
On my barge I regret the balance of space allocated to galley area,
saloon, master cabin and forward cabin. It would have benefitted from
another 50mm in the galley, 50mm less in the master cabin and 100mm more
in the fo'cstle. The saloon could have absorbed the 100mm without
affecting the usefulness or shape of the saloon. It is amazing what
difference an extra inch can make, I am told ! Generally my rule was to
make any space as compact as possible to achieve it's purpose unless you
have a massive barge, of course.
Edward.

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Dear Edward,

Many thanks for your views. I would be very interested in a copy of the drawings if you could supply, or even upload to the DBA as a template on the knowledge forum. It seems to be a pretty standard problem so if you have found the 'holy grail' of skylights I suspect others might be interested.

Good shout about the size (for tanks etc) and the brass protecting rods.

Does anyone regret not having fitted a fold down wheelhouse? I know fixed wheel houses can be a major cost saving but wondered if an air draft of 3.5m or so is a real limitation given the fact we are unlikely to be cruising that extensively.

Thanks to Debra about the Ikea tiles idea. I had been thinking about some form of decking and this seems to fit the bill. Do you have a link or contact for your skylights with integrated fly screen. The fact they sit flush is quite attractive in terms of aesthetics.

Thanks to all for the info. Does anyone have any lessons learned from plumbing systems? I have heard that the solvent sealed 40mm domestic pipe is better than the flexible tubing which is often supplied with black tanks (I can concur on this - with a leak from our toilet during fitting - quite difficult to get a good seal). I am considering fitting a Type 2 bio aerator tank in the engine room for sewage treatment so that I am not limited access to pump out stations, but am concerned by the distance that the sewage needs to be pumped from the bathroom (on the current plan at least!) which is about 15m. Has anyone encountered this problem or is it advisable (especially at with a blank canvas of a barge) to avoid such long travels for sewage?

Many thanks again :)

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the tip about rubbing strakes. Do you know if there are designers around who would be able to draw up plans based on my initial requirements? I am more than happy to spend money on getting a design right at this stage ensuring all everything is balanced correctly and I have a full set of design blueprints for the structural and M&E so that things aren't developed 'on the fly'. Where does one find these individuals? I have used the font of all knowledge (Google) but it keeps coming up short... Personal recommendations are definitely mcuh appreciated.

Regards

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Peter Cawson]

… but wondered if an air draft of 3.5m or so is a real limitation

I think you’d regret going for a fixed roof as high as 3.5 m. “They say” France is OK at 3.5 m but that’s only true for the through routes from the Channel to the Med. If you want to venture onto the smaller and usually prettier canals, then you’d lose your roof. 3.0 m is better for a fixed roof, but watch the width too. I can lower to well under 3 m but I still can’t use the Nivernais because my rear railings are over 4 m wide at a height of 2.6 m, although I may venture in from the troublesome southern end next year to check this out! Tunnels such as the nasty little one at Ham also cause me great difficulty unless I hand-manoeuver my boat through, although there’s plenty of height in the centre.

… am concerned by the distance that the sewage needs to be pumped from the bathroom

You could consider 2 black tanks as close as possible to your WCs. My boat has 8-9 m from the aft WC and I worry if the flush doesn’t fully clear the pipe and it needs lots of water. My last boat had 2 smaller tanks under the floors in bathrooms. This allowed the use of standard household toilets (a fraction the cost of marine macerator ones) and the macerating was done on the way out of the tank – the method used by commercial barges.

The alternate to a lovely wooden skylight is a large sliding roof. Not so pretty but very practical, probably more secure and maybe less costly.

Peter

[DBA Forum (B) - Nigel Seaman]

I wish that prior to completing the fit-out, I had replaced all of the previous owners installation (comprising flexible water hoses and jubilee clips) with semi-rigid pipe and push fit captive fittings.

Regards,

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

My pigeon box/skylight has a steel upstand and fabricted removable central rib with water drains. 3 pice wood work also has matching wood rib which is bolted through steel.
Inside box is large enough to accomodate a ceiling fan and extra height avoids head chopping incidents.
Also route for large items such as sofa into saloon. After resealing all the glazing panels this summer, no more leaks and old sealer was notably by its absence.

Kip,
Where are you based? I know a good naval architect in Southampton UK.


[attachment=220]IMG-20140926-00159.jpg[/attachment]

Colin Stone
KEI

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Oooh these look really good Colin. What a great idea :) I am definitely going to use that for ours. The central drainage channel is a nifty idea and obviously works well.

I am currently in St Neots at the moment but have found a barge in the Netherlands which is perfect for us. I am just trying to get enough figures together for a refit so that I am confident I won't have to sell a kidney to be able to complete it and I think money spent for professional services is definitely money well spent. I would definitely be keen to chat to the naval architect in Southampton, just to throw some ideas around with him and get an idea as to his costs as well.

Many thanks.

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Thanks Nigel. It seems that the flexible stuff is a bit of a disaster area and that standard domestic push fit or solvent sealed stuff is better. I have used push fit stuff (15/22mm) for hot water and central heating before in my house and it is superb so I will definitely be using this in my next boat. Waste and other plumbing I think I am going to stick to standard domestic plumbing stuff!

[DBA Forum (B) - Nigel Seaman]

Glad to be of help Christopher.

A couple of things to bear in mind with rigid piping; Expansion/contraction of long lengths. Some plasticised piping has a metallic core and this could provide a condensation problem on the cold service.

Regards,

[DBA Forum (B) - Chris Williamson]

Also with plastic piping carrying hot water - it becomes quite flexible and wobbly - so adequate support needs to be planned into your fit out. It doesn't stay rigid like copper!

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 16:22:12 +0200
wish I had/hadn't done/installed that...
Glad to be of help Christopher.
A couple of things to bear in mind with rigid piping; Expansion/contraction of long lengths. Some plasticised piping has a metallic core and this could provide a condensation problem on the cold service.
Regards,

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Good points on both. I think the plastic is probably the way to go and my normal instinct is to over engineer anything so that it can survive a nuclear apocalypse so hopefully sagging shouldn't be a snag but it's definitely a consideration, especially with waste pipes where gunk can build up and start to rot.

Regards

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Kip,

www.dianaroberts.co.uk

Diana was really good and she quickly and efficiently checked a design of mine against Lloyds Special Service Rules and DNV Small Craft.

I used 15mm and 22mm speedfit for CH, HW and CW plumbing throughout, with copper in any tight fiddly bits as it is neater - and first couple of feet from boiler.

Lots of other plumbing is in 40mm UPVC, but I did use quite a bit of leeflex as it was flexible and the lot I got was only £1/m. It has been fine.

Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Thanks Colin, I will definitely drop her a line and see where to go from here. It would be good to know I am not committing and howlers against the regs which might be expensive to put right.

Good point about the feed from the boiler as well. I am not sure about the effects of the very hot water on speedfit plastic pipe and whether it ages the pipe unduly so. I am hoping to fit a biomass oven/boiler combo to do everything and avoid having gas tanks and additional oil tanks for for a Kabola or similar. Thanks for the pointer on Leeflex - not heard of it before but good to know it's got a decent reputation.

Regards

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Kip,
Pigeon box/Skylight from the inside:

[attachment=221]IMG-20140926-00160.jpg[/attachment]

Colin Stone
KEI

[DBA Forum (B) - Edward &amp; Pam Burrell]

Dear Kip and Charlie,

I will organise a drawing and basic instructions over the next few days
and let you know when it is available.

The wheelhouse illustrated on p26 of my book was previously a fixed
affair. The rebuild allowed us to position doors, windows (double
glazed) and interior fittings exactly where needed. Personally I think
wooden ones look better on a fine old barge.

On the plumbing issue you can always mix plastic and copper with pushfit
using copper for long unsupported runs.

Edward.

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton
Dear Edward,
Many thanks for your views. I would be very interested in a copy of the drawings if you could supply, or even upload to the DBA as a template on the knowledge forum. It seems to be a pretty standard problem so if you have found the 'holy grail' of skylights I suspect others might be interested.
Good shout about the size (for tanks etc) and the brass protecting rods.
Does anyone regret not having fitted a fold down wheelhouse? I know fixed wheel houses can be a major cost saving but wondered if an air draft of 3.5m or so is a real limitation given the fact we are unlikely to be cruising that extensively.
Thanks to Debra about the Ikea tiles idea. I had been thinking about some form of decking and this seems to fit the bill. Do you have a link or contact for your skylights with integrated fly screen. The fact they sit flush is quite attractive in terms of aesthetics.
Thanks to all for the info. Does anyone have any lessons learned from plumbing systems? I have heard that the solvent sealed 40mm domestic pipe is better than the flexible tubing which is often supplied with black tanks (I can concur on this - with a leak from our toilet during fitting - quite difficult to get a good seal). I am considering fitting a Type 2 bio aerator tank in the engine room for sewage treatment so that I am not limited access to pump out stations, but am concerned by the distance that the sewage needs to be pumped from the bathroom (on the current plan at least!) which is about 15m. Has anyone encountered this problem or is it advisable (especially at with a blank canvas of a barge) to avoid such long travels for sewage?
Many thanks again :)
Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Edward,

I didn't change to smaller doors, which would fit rather well, but the name boards wouldn't fit on them. And the glazing panels would be smaller.
One day!

Colin Stone
KEI
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[DBA Forum (B) - Christopher Morton]

Many thanks Edward. I am looking to get quotes for windows and skylights etc so I can budget so this will be a great help.

Regards

Kip

[DBA Forum (B) - Peter Cawson]

On the subject of rubbing strakes, I'd like to have had the large V shaped rubber strips as used by pilot boats. Provided they are well fitted, they won't get loose or be ripped off.

If your back end is square shaped (as mine is and my next boat will be if I get round to building it), I'd install large wheels embedded horizontally into the corners a few inches above water level. Not little wheelbarrow wheels, but the fat wheels you see on green-keepers tractors. Protruding 6-8 inches from the sides, they would resolve the problem of adequately fendering this vulnerable part of your boat. They wouldn't look any worse than conventional fenders and wouldn’t pick up grit that scratches your paintwork. They would rotate when in contact with the lock wall and wouldn't be dragged backwards as fenders are, eventually finishing up behind the boat with the consequential thump as you back end makes contact. I use a mirror to keep an eye on my back corner - this would be un
necessary if I was confident that touching the wall wouldn't do any damage and I could use the rudder more generously as I leave locks. It's may seem a bonkers idea, but I've seen these wheels in
some workboats and also, doing the same job but fitted into sharp points in commercial dock walls, where boats are liable to need fending off.

Peter

[DBA Forum (B) - Derek and Janice Wallace]

Nothing bonkers about it Peter. I fully intend to do that to my barge currently being converted. Being 5.05 wide it's going to be tight going some places.

Using solid fork truck wheels/tyres on retractable arms which will bring them in flush when not in use. Six a side on a 29m long.

Derek

[DBA Forum (B) - Peter Cawson]

Derek - So the fenderless barge? A bit of a holy grail – inflatable fenders are so unattractive and constantly need height adjustment.

Are you sure you want solid (presumably non-pneumatic) tyres? They'd offer little less jolting than no fenders at all! Air-filled fenders are inflated to just a few pounds per square inch and usually offer compression of about 6 inches – enough to absorb a non-perfect approach to a solid wall. I wonder if a solid tyre would prevent your bookcase from depositing its contents onto your floor – as I experienced once on a friend’s barge with near-solid fenders. If you're 5,05 m wide, I suppose you have little left for fendering. I was thinking of fat pneumatic tyres inflated with low pressure so as to offer plenty of cushioning, but I'm planning on a beam of not more than about 4.75 m.

Peter

[DBA Forum (B) - Derek and Janice Wallace]

Peter, airbag extension will take the hit and spring retraction. Fork lift wheels just don't decay much and are quite reasonable. Polyurethane can be had which is also non marking. Did think of making a couple each side castoring to go up and down locks !

Complete systems geek so having hydraulics, pneumatics and electrics on board holds no fear !

Derek

[DBA Forum (B) - Debra Colley-Allerton]

This question doesn't quite fit kips had/hadn't wish list but it's been on my mind for a while:
We have a HUGE original windlass on the bow of our tjalk which we have not yet used because we are too scared!
It looks like it hasn't been used for decades.
Thinking of replacing it with a smaller (and presume easier to use) one? It also blocks vision from inside the wheelhouse. We mostly steer from the upstairs deck but it would be good to move it.

Has anyone moved/replaced a windlass? Should it be tested somehow other that dropping it in the water? What about the integrity of each link?
Thanks
Deb