Import from outside EU

[DBA Forum (B) - Gary Wiles]

Hi
As an ex narrowboat living (but still narrowboat owning) lurker hoping to live aboard again on a larger vessel, I hope that the forum might be able to help with some information. My girlfriend and I have come across the most beautiful boat. The problem.....and its a big problem, is.... the boat is on the west coast of America!!
Some basic investigation suggests that we might just be able to afford to buy and ship it home. The much lower values of US boats compensating to some extent for the hugely expensive shipping costs.
Whats the import duty and VAT status of such an import? Does any exemption for liveaboad boats apply to second hand vessels and would that exemption, if it were available, extend to the shipping costs?
What about RCD complience? would a boat that pre-dated the RCD scheme(1922) and was already suitable to live aboard be exempt.
Are there any other bear traps for me to fall into that I haven't thought about?
Gary

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Hello Gary,

The bad news is that your purchase may have to comply with the EU Recreational Craft Directive as an import and will have a VAT liability as well.

RCD applies to ALL imported vessels - not just new ones.

As VAT has not been paid in the EU HMRC may seek full recovery of VAT on the purchase price.

Zero-rating for qualifying ships (see Knowledge Base and HMRC 744C) only applies for purchases in UK so if you used a UK agent for shipping you may be able to zero- rate.

This is the first time I have seen this particular question so there may be other options or opinions.

[DBA Forum (B) - Balliol Fowden]

Andy,

I'm not sure about the RCD bit. The boat is 1922 so predates the RCD (active date 16th. June 1998) by a little bit, just as do most (many?) of our barges. I would have to check.

Regarding VAT, it may be possible to agree a much lower binding tariff with HMRC as an old, pre-VAT boat, perhaps 5%, more in line with the old purchase tax. This does however have to be done & dusted before the boat is imported to the EU.

Balliol.

[DBA Forum (B) - Gary Wiles]

Thank you both for your replies.
I hoped that the age of the vessel and the fact that no fundemental changes would be made to either the structure or accomodation would exempt it from the RCD
I also hoped that I might seek VAT exemption as a "qualifying ship". The boat certainly exceeds the tonnage requirement at 55 tonnes as calculated from the app on the DBA website
If I'm wrong on these points it would make a hugely difficult project completely unfeasible......which sadly, as the rose tint fades from my specticles, may be the truth.

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Gary Wiles
exceeds the tonnage requirement at 55 tonnes as calculated from the app on the DBA website

That is a large ship. Are you sure on the calcs? - use the formula in VAT Notice 744C. I am 22m and only 29GRT for VAT purposes.
I imported my vessel from another EU country and was able to claim QS zero rating, although I did have to go through 2 courts to achieve it. As an aside, as the vessel was new, I was able to export from NL without paying the VAT. Obviously, this won't apply to you, but the QS zero rating could.

I recall that the vessel is a good few years old? In that case I doubt that RCD will apply - 2.5 - 24m recreational boats built after 1998. Anyway, it is not illegal to have a boat without an RCD - only to sell it!
I was advised by RYA to apply the historical replica exemption on my 2004 vessel, which the designer and manufacturer duly did iaw the Directive.

I would talk to RYA for RCD and HMRC for VAT.

Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Gary Wiles]

Hi Colin
My calc was slightly out, but not by much I inputted the wrong beam. The boat has a 2m draft which is perhaps what makes the tonnage calc so high
22.25 x 4.57 x an estimated 3m from keel to weather deck x .16 = 48.8 tonnes. Is that correct?
I know the draft will be a problem for many canals but I was thinking Glous and Sharpness, Bristol and the Severn estuary.

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Gary,

Yup - 48GRT - big ship through depth!

And the comments about cruisers and power boats in 744C wrt QS 0 rating might apply?

Would be interesting to see a pic?

Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Balliol Fowden]

The depth is taken from the upper face of the bottom plate at the keel, or
garboard strake, or inner face of moulding amidships, to the underside of
the weather deck or the estimated underside of the weather deck if there
were one (i.e. not the underside of a cabin or superstructure. The
measurement is taken at the half point of length. Any keel is irrelevant.
See HMRC VAT Notice 744C.

Balliol.


----- Original Message -----
Forum (B) - Gary Wiles"
subscribers"
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 5:10 PM
from outside EU

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Gary Wiles
Hi Colin
My calc was slightly out, but not by much I inputted the wrong beam. The
boat has a 2m draft which is perhaps what makes the tonnage calc so high
22.25 x 4.57 x an estimated 3m from keel to weather deck x .16 = 48.8
tonnes. Is that correct?
I know the draft will be a problem for many canals but I was thinking
Glous and Sharpness, Bristol and the Severn estuary.

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[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Gary,
I was in flat bottom mode with no keel - as Balliol says disregard keel and re calculate.

Colin Stone
KEI

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Further to this - I have now looked again at the RCD in the cold light of Sunday morning!

See http://imci.org/userfiles/other/downloads/94-25-ec/guide_v2_94_25_en.pdf page 20

This seems to confirm that craft returning to the EU will not need to comply but may need certification on resale?

Elsewhere this same document says that craft designed pre 1950 or replicas need not comply.

TRIWV will apply in EU outside UK.

The VAT liability remains an uncertainty but you may be able to negotiate terms with HMRC.

[DBA Forum (B) - Gary Wiles]

Thank you all for taking the time to help me in what may well turn out to be a pipe dream. I do have a Dutch boat in mind as a plan B but as thats in need of a complete fit out it may turn out to be just as expensive!
I'll do some investigation with the relevant authorities but it seems that the RCD or VAT are not insurmountable problems.
As the shipping cost is roughly equal to the purchase price having to pay VAT on shipping would still kill the project but I imagine that if my shipping contract was with an American company then would VAT apply?
The shipping is complicated. the only scheduled service I can find involves a trans-shipment in Miami withe all the problems of finding a tempory mooring while waiting for a transatlantic freighter.
Colin. I'd gladly post a picture but dont know how!

[DBA Forum (B) - Andy Soper]

Hello Gary,

Your American shipping company will have to charge sales tax - 6% in Florida and it varies from state to state

Have you seen this potential purchase and have you included a hull and purchase survey in your calculations?