Making masts lowerable/converting sailing into motor

[DBA Forum (B) - Sharna Jackson]

Hello,

A friend of mine is interested in a sailing barge in NL which has two non-lowerable masts. They concern me. His plan is to bring it over to the UK, and moor in Kent, but take it occasionally on The Thames.

My question is (a 'how long is a piece of string' question, so apologies in advance) does anyone know how much it would cost to make the masts lowerable, if that is indeed possible? Also - and this is an absolute travesty - but what would be the work/cost involved of removing masts/sails/rigging and being motor only?

Thanks in advance
SJ

[DBA Forum (B) - Balliol Fowden]

I guess the real question is "does your friend really want a sailing barge?"

If not then don't buy one because there will very likely be a premium on the price as a sailing barge.

Even if the masts can be modified so as to be lowered they will still be a big encumbrance and a maintenance burden so they need to be useful to justify all that. Two masts laid horizontal plus all the rig could be a real inconvenience to handling the vessel inland.

Modifications to make it possible to strike the masts more easily will probably be expensive, but as with many aspects of this, more detail is needed in the question (or photos) for simple and pertinent replies to be forthcoming. It is likely that in order for the masts to be mounted in a tabernacle there will not only have to be various structural modifications to the masts and present support arrangements, but possibly also quite major modifications to the standing rigging. If the intention really is to sail the ship, but also occasionally take it up the river, it might make more sense to lift the masts out for those river trips. A yard such as Iron Wharf at Faversham, to name but one, would doubtless handle that.

But if the masts might then remain in storage for years then I would suggest your friend refers back to my original question.

If the masts are removed permanently that should not entail any significant work or cost, particularly if the rig can be sold, but the vessel may then be devalued, by more than the rig will sell for, compared to its present value if it is a good and sought after sailing ship at the moment.

Balliol.

[DBA Forum (B) - Sharna Jackson]

Thank you so much for your reply, Balliol. I really appreciate it.

I think he's enamoured with the living space. I've only had motor barges so this is outside of my realm of knowledge.

Here's the barge: http://www.doevemakelaar.nl/en/ships/324/sailing-clipper-2955

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to Rotterdam tomorrow to take a look. Do you travel that far for surveys?

Very best
SJ

[DBA Forum (B) - Balliol Fowden]

From the photos it would seem that the masts are mounted in proper tabernacles and the main mast at least has a proper support structure down to the ship's bottom as opposed to just a compression post (for a heel stepped mast). What I cannot see is the bokkepooten, the sheer legs for raising and lowering the mast, so it may be the absence of those that makes the vendor say the masts cannot be lowered. Manufacturing those should not be a massive cost but you would need advice from a professional rigger.

I would say again that the masts and rig will be a pain to maintain, lower and stow if the sailing potential is not a significant point of the exercise, but the price is certainly interesting!

pm me if you want to talk professional matters.

Balliol.

[DBA Forum (B) - Sharna Jackson]

Thanks so much.
I can't seem to get PM to work, so will send an email.
SJ

[DBA Forum (B) - Richard Cooper]

Just an inexpert observation. I don't think there are a great many klippers with sailing rig left, heaven only knows what it would cost to buy a whole new set to fit should a future owner ever wish to restore it to sail. At the advertised asking price, all other things being equal, I would store the gear and think of it as an appreciating investment.

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

As a slightly oblique aside, Steve Dashew has come to the conclusion that although the wind is free, harnessing it is more expensive than using an engine!
Lots at www.setsail.com.

Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Barrie and Carole Grant]

How true!! You can purchase many many gallons/litres of fuel for the cost of a mast or two, rigging and a suit of sails.... not to mention rapairs, replacements etc. etc.



Barrie and Carole Grant

M/V SilkPurse



On 24 August 2014 15:32, DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:




As a slightly oblique aside, Steve Dashew has come to the conclusion that although the wind is free, harnessing it is more expensive than using an engine!

Lots at www.setsail.com.



Colin Stone

KEI

Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Balliol Fowden]

[quote="Barrie and Carole Grant" post=57276]How true!! You can purchase many many gallons/litres of fuel for the cost of a mast or two, rigging and a suit of sails.... not to mention rapairs, replacements etc. etc.


Ah, but there is something very soul stirring about sailing a proper sailing barge or an ex-commercial heavy sailing vessel such as a pilot cutter. I've been there, done that, and there can be no comparison with the cost of fuel, but I would not want the maintenance: a motor barge is enough to maintain!

Balliol.









Sent via BlackBerry® BIS[/quote]

[DBA Forum (B) - Daniel Boekel]

The lowering / lifting is not to difficult, most work is while lifting making shure al the ropes and wires don't catch everywhere.

This is how you lower / lift the mast:

Loading Image...
Loading Image...


On smaller boats u can make something like this:
Loading Image...


I made a system for a 17M klipper a while ago:
http://www.boekel.nu/foto/06b/2006-07klipper/index.htm

It would be a shame if the rigging is removed...

[DBA Forum (B) - Daniel Boekel]

True, I prefer sailing on other peoples barges ;)


2014-08-24 20:43 GMT+02:00 DBA Forum (B) - Balliol Fowden <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org>:



[quote='Barrie and Carole Grant' post=57276]How true!! You can purchase many many gallons/litres of fuel for the cost of a mast or two, rigging and a suit of sails.... not to mention rapairs, replacements etc. etc.






Ah, but there is something very soul stirring about sailing a proper sailing barge or an ex-commercial heavy sailing vessel such as a pilot cutter. I've been there, done that, and there can be no comparison with the cost of fuel, but I would not want the maintenance: a motor barge is enough to maintain!




Balliol.



















Sent via BlackBerry® BIS[/quote]

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Balliol,

Ah, but there is something very soul stirring about sailing a proper sailing barge.

Well agree. Sailing a 100 ton tjalk in F5 and less than 5 degrees heel while the tupperwares all around were on their beam ends. Gin and tonics not even spilt.

I have designed a well balanced ketch rig, with for KEI, and one day might get it built!

Colin Stone
KEI

Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Adrian]

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 20:48:31 +0200, "DBA Forum (B) - Sharna Jackson"

Post by DBA Forum (B) - Sharna Jackson
I think he's enamoured with the living space. I've only had motor barges so this is outside of my realm of knowledge.
Here's the barge: http://www.doevemakelaar.nl/en/ships/324/sailing-clipper-2955
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to Rotterdam tomorrow to take a look. Do you travel that far for surveys?

There are lots of barges that originally sailed, but from which the
rig has been removed. I suggest a search among those for an
acceptable purchase, if the ability to sail is not a requirement.

It seems a real shame to de-rig one that still has sailing capability.

Adrian


Adrian Stott
Tel. UK (0)7956-299966

[DBA Forum (B) - Paul Thomson]

Hi Sharma,

If your friend does decide to remove the mast and sails then I may be interested in the sails and tackle as I am looking to repower my barge in future.

I'm on a limited budget but if they are to be removed then at least they will have a second life.

Regards,

Paul

[DBA Forum (B) - W. James McWilliams (Bill)]

Yes, but somewhere in there one has to consider the level of investment he puts into boats such as "Windhorse" and her kin with respect to optimal design, extravagant fit out et c. Not to say, however, that I wouldn't take one in a nanosecond if I could afford it.

Bill McWilliams
River Pipit



On Aug 24, 2014, at 4:32 PM, DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone wrote:

As a slightly oblique aside, Steve Dashew has come to the conclusion that although the wind is free, harnessing it is more expensive than using an engine!
Lots at www.setsail.com.

Colin Stone
KEI
Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Sharna Jackson]

Thanks so much everyone - the barge was very interesting indeed - will keep you posted.
I'm mostly with Adrian on this - to me, it feels a bit wrong to de-rig - but we'll see.