Riqueval Tunnel

[DBA Forum (B) - David & Penelope Kerr]

Hi experts,

Does anyone have a profile of the Riqueval tunnel? I have read the various posts and looked at photos but not found a profile.

Although we are 17m x 4.2m x 36 tonnes and zig zags make us 4.4, our wheelhouse roof is very wide and 3.22m high at just 27cm inside the hull on each side (which becomes an effective 37cm inset if the zig-zags are included). The hull at that point is also narrower at the point of maximum wheelhouse roof width being 3.85 without the fenders (we are a Bolpraam).

So, we would have no trouble on the tow path side but the other side is a concern, particularly as our rudder does nothing without the engine and it seems we are in the hands of the tower and possibly whatever is behind. I would not mind bumping the wall with the hull but the roof is a different matter.

Any information or views would be gratefully appreciated. A lot depends upon the curvature.

A few years ago we made it through the Pouilly tunnel but had to keep within +-20cm the whole time. We suffered two small scrapes, one on each side and it would have been impossible if the water level had not been down 30cm. Also, we were in control of our own destiny!

Best Regards,
Dave

[DBA Forum (B) - Charles Fitzhardinge]

Whilst searching (unsuccessfully) for a profile of the Riqueval tunnel I came across the French Wikipedia entry which suggests the VNF intend to do away with the tow and go to "drive-through" operation (see http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touage_souterrain_de_Riqueval).

This could make it even easier - we have had no trouble with Anna Maria on our 2 crossings except for having to suppress effects of the madly cavorting cruiser behind us! Our height was 3.2m on our first (2009) traverse and 3.0m (due to relocating a large search light and our stern and anchor lights) on our second (2013).

Charles Fitzhardinge
Anna Maria

[DBA Forum (B) - Michel de Lange]

Hi Dave, we can set your mind at ease.  Our wheelhouse is the same hight but not as wide as yours. But we have a sunroof that is as wide as the barge, 4.58 and if we lower that to the hight of the wheelhouse we pass without a problem, like we did last year and will do again in a week or so. We were the first and only barge and that makes it even easier. They even accepted (advised) the use of our bowthruster that we can  only use with the engine running. That's our main concern now as the bowthruster doesn't work and we would not like to be 2nd or more to be in tow. We will see how it goes, good luck Rebecca


Op 12 aug. 2014 17:05 schreef 'DBA Forum (B) - David & Penelope Kerr' <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org>:


Hi experts,



Does anyone have a profile of the Riqueval tunnel? I have read the various posts and looked at photos but not found a profile.



Although we are 17m x 4.2m x 36 tonnes and zig zags make us 4.4, our wheelhouse roof is very wide and 3.22m high at just 27cm inside the hull on each side (which becomes an effective 37cm inset if the zig-zags are included). The hull at that point is also narrower  at the point of maximum wheelhouse roof width being 3.85 without the fenders (we are a Bolpraam).




So, we would have no trouble on the tow path side but the other side is a concern, particularly as our rudder does nothing without the engine and it seems we are in the hands of the tower and possibly whatever is behind. I would not mind bumping the wall with the hull but the roof is a different matter.




Any information or views would be gratefully appreciated. A lot depends upon the curvature.



A few years ago we made it through the Pouilly tunnel but had to keep within +-20cm the whole time. We suffered two small scrapes, one on each side and it would have been impossible if the water level had not been down 30cm. Also, we were in control of our own destiny!




Best Regards,

Dave

[DBA Forum (B) - Peter Cawson]

Dave - Others have answered your question about dimensions, but the question I asked mystelf was "Do I want to be towed for miles through a tunnel with no speed control". My answer was No, so I chose to take the Nord roure instead. The prospect of my boat being towed behind others and maybe with more behind me and no means of slowing down if I (or someone else) loses steering control in a narrow tunnel fills me with dread! The Nord tunnels are 6.5m wide, well lit and with wood or rubber buffers along both sides - and a path each side, so hitting something above the path is impossible. You can choose your own speed, although you may have to put up with an unladen commercial husstling you from behind! He can be ignored, although in my case he seemed happy with my near 4 knots.

Peter

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Dave,

We did the tunnel southbound this year after a long time prevaricating about it.

We are 4.85m wide and WH is 3.3m wide at 3.35-40m high. I did clamp zigzags on port side, nowhere near wall.

1h 40m transit was fine, we were behind 2 unladen peniches and a yacht astern.
Very little steering required, wheel stayed at Stbd 5 for most part to keep stern in. BT not even warmed up.

St Q is far nicer than Nord.

Colin Stone
KEI

Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - David &amp; Penelope Kerr]

Thank you all for the useful replies.

Rebecca, your experience (wide sunroof to the full width) suggests that the wall on the non-towpath side does not start to curve until at least 3metres TA. Would this be your judgement or is it just that you did not come close to that wall?

Re the Nord, we have been up and down it a couple of times and quite enjoyed the trip and particularly the excellent tunnel. However, as Colin says, the St Martin is undoubtedly more interesting and attractive.

Thanks again,
Dave

[DBA Forum (B) - David &amp; Penelope Kerr]

whoops- I meant St Quentin above.

[DBA Forum (B) - Michel de Lange]

Hi, to be honest we don't remember. We just know that passage was no problem at all. After the weekend I can tell you more if that's still of interst at that time

Rebecca

Op 13 aug. 2014 09:05 schreef 'DBA Forum (B) - David & Penelope Kerr' <dbabarges-pvYRptiajiAdnm+***@public.gmane.org>:


Thank you all for the useful replies.



Rebecca, your experience (wide sunroof to the full width) suggests that the wall on the non-towpath side does not start to curve until at least 3metres TA. Would this be your judgement or is it just that you did not come close to that wall?




Re the Nord, we have been up and down it a couple of times and quite enjoyed the trip and particularly the excellent tunnel. However, as Colin says, the St Martin is undoubtedly more interesting and attractive.



Thanks again,

Dave

[DBA Forum (B) - David &amp; Penelope Kerr]

Hi Rebecca, yes it would be useful to know after your next go.

Thanks,

Dave

From D Kerr's Android

[DBA Forum (B) - Michel de Lange]

Hi David,

As promised the tale of our passage through Riqueval. Quite a different experience from last year's.

First some facts: the tunnel dimensions are about the same as the small one at Lesdins, so coming front the south you can 'practice'. From that side the towpath in both tunnels is on SB and they are well lit.


The small tunnel was no problem to pass, we lowered our sun roof to 3.20m.

The passage through Riqueval was troubled for us by the tow.

We don't know exactly what happened but we got pulled to port and had to shout and hoot to make them stop in order not to be damaged front and back. The first two times Michel could correct with the rudder (we had the motor running) enough to control most misery but they said it was our fault because Michel corrected. So we didn't do anything after that and the result was that we really got pulled on the wall, bent a scepter in the handrail and scraped quite some paint on the railing.


By that time they where so pi''ed that they told us to throw them their line and we continued on our own. That was, as in the other tunnel, no problem at all.

After the passage someone from the VNF came to look. We shook hands, filled in some forms, photo's were taken, we drank a café, had a chat and shook hands.

Now it's an insurance matter.

The man told us it was his second damage report in one week, after four months nothing.

The big difference for us was that we could not use our bowthruster this time.

Would we do it again, yes definitely. Would we do it again without BT, certainly not if towed!

Don't worry about the engine, they advise you to turn it on if you think you need it.

So you have to make up your own mind what to do but what ever good luck and enjoy the trip. Canal the St Quentin is very nice,

regards Rebecca

[DBA Forum (B) - David &amp; Penelope Kerr]

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Hi Rebecca,

Sorry to hear that. Very unpleasant.

Hopefully you can get it fixed up okay and that there are no problems with insurance. If it is Haven Knox (the DBA insurer), we were delighted with them when our rudder got torn off near Trier in Germany a coupe of years back.

We have decided to skip the delights of StQ this year and are again going to travel the Nord.

All the best and many thanks for the info and good luck,

Dave & Penny

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

Michel and Rebecca,

Sorry to hear your tale of woe.
I wonder what the issue was?

If the tow rope is long enough and opposite side to tow path, then the natural pull is into the tow path, not into the wall.
Well strange.

Hope all is retrievable with a lick of paint.

Regards,

Colin Stone
KEI
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Sent: Aug 16, 2014 14:33


Hi David,

As promised the tale of our passage through Riqueval. Quite a different experience from last year's.

First some facts: the tunnel dimensions are about the same as the small one at Lesdins, so coming front the south you can 'practice'. From that side the towpath in both tunnels is on SB and they are well lit.


The small tunnel was no problem to pass, we lowered our sun roof to 3.20m.

The passage through Riqueval was troubled for us by the tow.

We don't know exactly what happened but we got pulled to port and had to shout and hoot to make them stop in order not to be damaged front and back. The first two times Michel could correct with the rudder (we had the motor running) enough to control most misery but they said it was our fault because Michel corrected. So we didn't do anything after that and the result was that we really got pulled on the wall, bent a scepter in the handrail and scraped quite some paint on the railing.


By that time they where so pi''ed that they told us to throw them their line and we continued on our own. That was, as in the other tunnel, no problem at all.

After the passage someone from the VNF came to look. We shook hands, filled in some forms, photo's were taken, we drank a café, had a chat and shook hands.

Now it's an insurance matter.

The man told us it was his second damage report in one week, after four months nothing.

The big difference for us was that we could not use our bowthruster this time.

Would we do it again, yes definitely. Would we do it again without BT, certainly not if towed!

Don't worry about the engine, they advise you to turn it on if you think you need it.

So you have to make up your own mind what to do but what ever good luck and enjoy the trip. Canal the St Quentin is very nice,

regards Rebecca



Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Michel de Lange]

Thank you Colin.

We would have thought we would be pulled to the towpath, but still......

The bent scepter needs a bit more than paint and TLC, hence the insurance

regards Rebecca

[DBA Forum (B) - Peter Cawson]

Rebecca - You describe the sort of problem I foresaw in May when I decided to take the Nord instead - see my earlier posting on this thread. You were perhaps fortunate that you were able to stop the tug. As far as I can see, there may have been a string of commecrial barges with you at the back end, and maybe with other pleasure boats behind you. That would be very worrying to me! Anyway, you enjoyed a much more attractive canal than the Nord. We were waiting for 5 hours on 9 May to get through the northern Nord lock as it had been a national holiday the day before and a serious build-up of commercials held us up badly. The big tunnel was a delight though!

Peter

[DBA Forum (B) - Jeremy May]

Is it possible to request to go at the rear?
We are a tjalk and have large rear-hung rudder which is vulnerable from behind

Also at 19 m and 4.20 m would crossed or a single line be favourable?
If single, when you refer of off-side, presumable you mean non-towpath side?

We are in Chauny so only have a couple of days to decide the route. I have to say we would far rather do the scenic St, Quentin.

[DBA Forum (B) - Colin Stone]

The order behind tug is descending weight.
We were behind 2 unladen peniches and had a yacht behind.
All except yacht on single 30m+ line on opposite side to tow path.
Yacht was told to use crossed lines.

Colin Stone
KEI

Sent via BlackBerry® BIS

[DBA Forum (B) - Michel de Lange]

Both times we passed we were the only one in tow. They do line up for biggest first, so it depends if you go with a peniche or a small yacht.

Last year they used a single line from the middle of the towboat that splitted to our left and right bolder.

This time it was a very new single line.

As we left the tunnel they had already hooked the boat on for the reverse trip using the old line.

Logically and technically what happened to us is not what you expect as you will be pulled to the towpath when using a crossed line.

What ever we might think happened we will never know for sure or be able to verify, so it's just that 'it happened'.

We are only one of many that get towed through and as I understand they do well so don't be put off by our experience.

Be there in time so you don't have to hook up in a hurry and stay alert.

The Canal St Quentin is so much nicer than the CdN.

regards Rebecca.